State lawmakers resume Carroll Fisher impeachment probe

Wednesday, June 9th 2004, 7:18 pm

By: News On 6

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) _ A top aide to Insurance Commissioner Carroll Fisher gave conflicting stories about the tax-exempt status of a continuing education event, the director of the event facility said Wednesday.

Marilyn Kreidler, the former director of the Nigh University Center at the University of Central Oklahoma, testified about the continuing education day before a special committee investigating Fisher. The continuing education classes and a dinner banquet were both held at the facility for several years.

The eight-member legislative panel is trying to determine if Fisher committed any impeachable offenses.

The 64-year-old Democrat and his assistant, Opal Ellis, are both facing felony charges related to the embezzlement of money from the continuing education day fund and the illegal operation of a charity.

On Wednesday, Kreidler told the committee Ellis initially signed a state contract that did not require a deposit for renting the facility. However, Ellis later ``changed her story'' and said the rent would not be paid with state money, Kreidler said.

``I know it was like nailing Jell-O to a tree _ you couldn't get an answer,'' Kreidler said. ``To be very straightforward, they did not comply with one rule, regulation or policy that we have.''

Kreidler said she eventually recommended to the president of UCO that the continuing education day program no longer be held at the facility.

The mishandling of the money raised through the program, where insurance agents received required continuing education credits, is among the allegations against Fisher.

Investigators with the attorney general's office testified previously that Fisher established the program and then placed some of the proceeds into Ellis' personal account.

Fisher, who was at the state Capitol Wednesday to file as a candidate for U.S. Senate, confirmed that money from the continuing education day was placed into Ellis' account. Fisher said that decision was made because they had not yet attained a tax identification number for a separate account.

``There were a couple of things that needed to be paid immediately, and so the bank advised us, or advised Opal, she could put it in the bank here, it's not a problem, but keep records of all the moneys that are available and all the moneys that go in,'' Fisher said. ``Then, when you get that number, come up and move that into the proper account.''

Fisher added that all the money raised through the continuing education day is accounted for.

``There's not any money missing,'' he said. ``Once I get the opportunity to show the books, show the records, you'll find that there's not any problem there. I'm a big guy and I'm willing to accept everybody's apology that thinks I'm wrong.''

But Jerry Scribner, assistant state treasurer, testified Wednesday that any money collected by a state agency is required to be placed into an account with the Office of the State Treasurer.

``There are a few exemptions, but I don't believe they (the Insurance Department) are in there,'' Scribner said. ``Without an exemption, those moneys should have been deposited into an account established by the state treasurer.''

The committee also heard from Phil Combs, an insurance claims adjustor with GHS Property and Casualty Co., who helped Fisher set up the continuing education day and a golf tournament.

Combs said money raised from the golf tournament was donated to the Fisher Foundation, a charity Fisher created to buy shoes for needy children. Combs said more than $20,000 was raised through the golf tournament from 1999 to 2001.

Combs said interest in the golf tournament started to dwindle because there was no evidence that shoes were being provided to children or that the foundation had qualified as a charitable organization. He said the tournament had to be canceled in 2002.

The committee also received testimony from Jay Gault, the former general counsel for Oklahoma Farmers Union, and Phillip Klutts, the former president of Oklahoma Farmers Union, about the purchase of a tapestry for Fisher's office.

Both men confirmed the company contributed $1,247 toward the cost of the tapestry, but denied they did so with the expectation of any special treatment from the commissioner.

``It sure couldn't hurt anything,'' Klutts said. ``But we didn't ask for any favors or anything like that.''

Klutts said the company made similar donations to former Gov. Frank Keating when the governor's mansion was being refurbished and toward a mural in the House of Representatives.

``I pictured it as another gift to the state of Oklahoma,'' Klutts said.

Gov. Brad Henry refused to accept more than $35,000 worth of furniture, artwork and office supplies donated to Fisher as gifts to the state, and the property was returned.

The committee will continue to hear testimony at 9 a.m. Thursday in room 432 at the State Capitol.